Interview Overview
Former Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) program manager Dr. James Lacatski discussed the history of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), alleged UAP-related government activities and the current debate over disclosure during an episode of the Weaponized podcast hosted by investigative journalists Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp. Lacatski, who helped create and manage AAWSAP, presented his account of the program’s origins and emphasized that the most reliable record is contained in books he co-authored, including Skinwalkers at the Pentagon and Inside the US Government Covert UFO Program. His claims, however, remain disputed and have not been independently verified in publicly available evidence.
AAWSAP Records and Scope
According to Lacatski, AAWSAP generated approximately 30,000 pages of material during its operation. That documentation was later reduced to about 7,500 pages under Colm Kelleher, a program manager at Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), the contractor associated with the effort. Lacatski said roughly 1,200 pages are now reflected in his published work. The program examined reports of unusual aerial phenomena and related events, including activity associated with Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. While AAWSAP is often described as one of the largest government-backed studies of UFO reports, the precise scope and conclusions of its work remain subjects of continuing debate.
Claims Involving a Recovered Craft
The most consequential portion of the interview concerned a claim attributed to Lacatski’s previous writing: that the U.S. government possesses a craft of non-human origin and has penetrated its exterior structure. During the discussion, Lacatski affirmed the claim and said he would be willing to testify under oath before Congress. He described entering the alleged vehicle and observing no conventional propulsion or energy systems, including “wings, fuel tanks, or engines.” Lacatski argued that researchers should focus less on the craft’s appearance and more on what he called its “motive force.” No physical evidence supporting the account was presented during the interview, and the U.S. government has not publicly confirmed possession of a non-human vehicle.
Criticism of AARO and Alleged Disinformation
Lacatski also sharply criticized the Pentagon’s All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), which is responsible for investigating UAP reports. He characterized some of AARO’s public statements—particularly those rejecting paranormal or extraterrestrial interpretations—as elements of a counterintelligence effort. He alleged that the office conducts a “human intelligence campaign” intended to identify and discredit whistleblowers. Lacatski further objected to comments by a former AARO deputy director concerning alleged links between UAP and paranormal phenomena, arguing that such remarks conflicted with the confidentiality surrounding earlier investigations. AARO and Pentagon officials have generally said their work is focused on resolving reports through available data and do not endorse unsupported extraterrestrial explanations.
Kona Blue and Political Obstacles
The conversation also examined “Kona Blue,” a proposed program that Lacatski said could have provided a more formal structure for researching recovered UAP technology. He described it as a potential compartment for deeper technical analysis but said it was undermined by funding constraints and political changes. Lacatski identified the late Senator Harry Reid as an important supporter of AAWSAP, while noting that Reid’s loss of the Senate majority leader position after the 2010 midterm elections reduced his ability to secure additional resources. The interview concluded with Lacatski warning that the public is being “played like a fiddle” and urging audiences to consult official records and authorized publications rather than relying on online speculation.
